YNAB You Need A Budget

[RickyBobby]

Ok, I think I've got my head around this a lot more since the past week (thanks again to everyone), but the one thing I find that's doing my head in when trying to budget still is . . .

I get paid on the 1st and 15th of every month (sometimes it drops a couple days early if date is on the weekend). On top of that, I get a second check from a side job every (and only) 15th that's about 20% of the regular job paycheck.

Now, of course, some bills are due in the 1st-15th period (rent, insurance, etc), and some are due in the 15th-30th period. This has been an issue forever and a day. I've called all the CC and other people and shuffled due dates as much as allowed, but no more wiggle room there, so schedule is where it is now.

So, to start with, how do you budget for things of this nature? I see that the idea (probably) is that you have a buffer and can then basically sock away half of everything each period, but I'm currently over-budgeted so I'm not sure how I would get from a (now) to b (buffer) exactly . . .

[DonGately]

Until you are able to build a buffer you'll have to budget using the pay periods you mentioned. In other words, when you receive your 1st of the month check classify it as income available this month and then budget those dollars out first covering bills that will be due before the 15th. When you receive the two checks on the 15th you will repeat the process budgeting first for bills due between the 15th and the 1st with any leftover dollars going toward building your buffer.

Though it's not entirely clear from your post, it looks like in the first half of your expenses exceed your income while in the second half your income exceeds your expenses. This should enable you to budget leftover dollars from the 15th on toward the next month's budget. This assumes that your monthly spending will not exceed your monthly income.

The buffer is definitely a goal worth working for since once it's in place you can then classify all income as available next month and can budget the entire next month in one sitting with complete knowledge of how many dollars you have to work with.

[RickyBobby]

Thanks. And no, I've got a bit to spare for two weeks (by looong design/work, heh) after bills.

[sarham]

There is a link on the training page (sorry, in a place where I can't add it here) that is called creative categories or something similar. I appreciated the examples of how I could use my categories to help me plan my paycheck periods.

[Malisa]

We recommend only budgeting the money you have. If you're overbudget, you've by definition budgeted more money than you have. I'm a little confused because at one point you say you're overbudget and then I later understand you to be saying that you have extra money.

Did you budget now for things that are not going to be paid until after you get paid again?

[RickyBobby]

It's a little hard to explain without the lengthy spreadsheet I worked up, but lemme try . . .

So I get, for round easy numbers, 2000 on the 1st, and then 2500 on the 15th, right?

On the 1st, rent, insurance, and a couple of other things that the dates of which are immovable, are due. If I plan it right, I'm left with a couple hundred for two weeks. And that's always a big "if". If I mis-gauge, I'm borrowing money from CC's or whatever and paying it back.

Then come the 15th, there's a few more bills, but with the larger income I'm a little ahead of the game, minus paying back what I borrowed from CCs on the 1st.

So, as for budgeting ahead, it makes sense to me to do so as my pay and bills are regular and that way I have a map for the whole month vs. ending up with what I consider to be my major issue of seeing a balance and going "oh hey I have some money for x gadget (or whatever)" and spending and then forgetting about a bill or unexpected expense I owe.

Make a little more sense?

[Malisa]

I get it, but you're looking at the general case of 1st -31st. I'm asking about RIGHT NOW since you say that RIGHT NOW (I think) you're overbudgeted, yet you have money available. Let's get the RIGHT NOW worked out, then talk abstract generalities about 'a normal month' (hint: they don't exist)

[Malisa]

So I get, for round easy numbers, 2000 on the 1st, and then 2500 on the 15th, right?

On the 1st, rent, insurance, and a couple of other things that the dates of which are immovable, are due. If I plan it right, I'm left with a couple hundred for two weeks. And that's always a big "if". If I mis-gauge, I'm borrowing money from CC's or whatever and paying it back.

Then come the 15th, there's a few more bills, but with the larger income I'm a little ahead of the game, minus paying back what I borrowed from CCs on the 1st.

So, as for budgeting ahead, it makes sense to me to do so as my pay and bills are regular and that way I have a map for the whole month vs. ending up with what I consider to be my major issue of seeing a balance and going "oh hey I have some money for x gadget (or whatever)" and spending and then forgetting about a bill or unexpected expense I owe.

Make a little more sense?

You registered for the forum on 6/17, so I'm going to start with the assumption that you started with pretty close to the 2500 that you get paid around the 15th.

On the 15th, you get 2500, let's say you have to 'pay back' 500 towards extra spending from the 1st to the 15th. So on the 15th you really only have 2000. But you've only got 1200 in stuff-you-have-to-pay-for between now and the 1st. I think you're saying that in the past 'woo hoo, I can go buy gadget x because I have extra money now' only to regret it when, during the 1st to 15th period you're woefully short.

So now, in June, with that 2000, don't just budget for those 15th-31st bills, budget for some of the 1st to 15th bills too. Or parts of them. It sounds like you're in a better position than some in that you KNOW that your bills are front-of-the-month heavy. Pay some early. OR, just budget the money to those categories (you should have some extra available right now, I think) and let it sit in those categories.

The two potential issues are: 1) if you don't spend by looking at your category balances and just look at your potentially-larger-than-normal bank balance, you can spend money you shouldn't and 2) I'm not sure you're on-top-of your credit card.

Maybe you're overbudget because you are using the float on your credit card? (That would actually be overspent, not overbudget). I'm just saying that maybe this is the case because you said you often use the CC in the first half to pay for things you can't really pay for (my words, not yours).

I'll leave it at this and let you jump in with what I've gotten right and wrong.

[adavant1]

My budget is very much like this. I need to "get ahead".

[RickyBobby]

So I get, for round easy numbers, 2000 on the 1st, and then 2500 on the 15th, right?

On the 1st, rent, insurance, and a couple of other things that the dates of which are immovable, are due. If I plan it right, I'm left with a couple hundred for two weeks. And that's always a big "if". If I mis-gauge, I'm borrowing money from CC's or whatever and paying it back.

Then come the 15th, there's a few more bills, but with the larger income I'm a little ahead of the game, minus paying back what I borrowed from CCs on the 1st.

So, as for budgeting ahead, it makes sense to me to do so as my pay and bills are regular and that way I have a map for the whole month vs. ending up with what I consider to be my major issue of seeing a balance and going "oh hey I have some money for x gadget (or whatever)" and spending and then forgetting about a bill or unexpected expense I owe.

Make a little more sense?

You registered for the forum on 6/17, so I'm going to start with the assumption that you started with pretty close to the 2500 that you get paid around the 15th.

On the 15th, you get 2500, let's say you have to 'pay back' 500 towards extra spending from the 1st to the 15th. So on the 15th you really only have 2000. But you've only got 1200 in stuff-you-have-to-pay-for between now and the 1st. I think you're saying that in the past 'woo hoo, I can go buy gadget x because I have extra money now' only to regret it when, during the 1st to 15th period you're woefully short.

So now, in June, with that 2000, don't just budget for those 15th-31st bills, budget for some of the 1st to 15th bills too. Or parts of them. It sounds like you're in a better position than some in that you KNOW that your bills are front-of-the-month heavy. Pay some early. OR, just budget the money to those categories (you should have some extra available right now, I think) and let it sit in those categories.

The two potential issues are: 1) if you don't spend by looking at your category balances and just look at your potentially-larger-than-normal bank balance, you can spend money you shouldn't and 2) I'm not sure you're on-top-of your credit card.

Maybe you're overbudget because you are using the float on your credit card? (That would actually be overspent, not overbudget). I'm just saying that maybe this is the case because you said you often use the CC in the first half to pay for things you can't really pay for (my words, not yours).

I'll leave it at this and let you jump in with what I've gotten right and wrong.

I apologize in advance if the below is a bit long, but it sometimes helps me "aha!" to write it out and maybe someone can glean a forest somewhere that I'm simply being a dunce and seeing only trees.

You've got it pretty much on point actually. But that's sort of what I'm asking I guess . . . my inital post ( frequently-asked-questions-f7/dealing-with-unknowns-for-brand-noobie-t16218.html ), I got the advice that I shouldn't be budgeting ahead from a lot of people - maybe I should've mentioned my pay schedule though? - and yes, as for MONTHS ahead, I see the point people are making of NOT doing that (sorta), though I'm still analyzing things a bit too and trying to "find my way" in a sense, so for now I'm leaving those numbers in. It helps me to see that when I overspend now on something, how that affects the buffer or lack thereof as it rolls on in the coming months and for things I'm starting to enter instead of trying to remember (and always forgetting), since I know they're coming.

I will say that this exercise has so far taught me that a little more focus on self-inspection of outflows is helpful, and I'm starting to see an edge of hopefully what's to become a fully revealed treasure map of sorts. My own personal treasure anyway, heh. Not that self-inspection of outflows is a revelation per se, I've used Quicken over the years, I've "used" Mint for the past several until it became unwieldy and stopped being helpful to me, if it ever fully was, and now use it as a "probably pretty close" tool. And I KNOW I'm HORRIBLE at remembering and estimating these things (I just am, I always try, but I fail, heh), but yes, I'm seeing a little light maybe, albeit slowly. I'll also say that trying to wrap my head around all of it AND trying to remember to enter transactions manually (mobile app or no) gives me pause, as trying to recall or find the time to enter on the spot in the mobile is also not something I have an amazing track record with. I do like the "auto download from bank" feature about Mint, as it tells me at a glance what I may have bought 8 hours ago but have since forgot about and forgot to enter and will now buy something I can't afford and overspend myself . . . but have also read the YNAB developer's "manifesto" (tried searching for this, but not sure if it was blog or email or where I saw it) about how the YNAB methodology makes you actively pay attention to what you're spending, so for now, for the sake of hopefully not repeating the same actions in perpetuity, I'm drinking the kool-aid and sloggin on. And that's not a dig at YNAB, just my thoughts so far. As someone said to me in that prior post linked above, "if your old methods were working, why are you here?" - I feel that.

Anyway, whew, rambling! But yes, a bit of my confusion at this point:

1st, the do/don't budget ahead. Am I only giving a job to what I have in my hot little hands/bank account when it comes to budgeting? If so, then how do I account for irregular things I know are coming but don't have money for as of yet? (I have a trip in Dec, I need new headphones, I need a new computer monitor, I"ll need a new computer sooner than later by the sounds of it lately). And how do I get from "a" (chasing my tail) to "b" (all buffered up)? Especially when I'm just getting started and am in somewhat of the usual tail chasing position still?

A little illumination for us both hopefully:

I get paid in a week or so, end of month, but the 30th falls on a weekend, so 90% sure based on past history (note that, it's caught me out before thinking money was coming sooner than it did, only a few days off, but still) that it will land on the 29th. That's the smaller check of $2000, right? Of that I have rent, insurance, and a few other minor things I can't move the date of. All told it figures to be about 75% or $1500, leaving me $500 for 2 weeks. In the past that meant not figuring in anything else but those "tangible" fixed bills I know about in a spreadsheet and marking a checkmark when paid (and then posted/cleared) in an effort to combat not remembering things I've already technically spent or sure am going to have to, like it or not. Not groceries, not cigarettes (I know, different conversation), not eating out - none of that stuff as they vary, some more than others. And I'd typically make $500 work, or had made a large payment on a CC the two weeks prior and then found I actually couldn't afford that large payment (because I suck at estimating and remembering, and upon seeing my mostly but not all cleared transactions and balance in my account, my internal dialogue went something like "hey, you totally have 'x' amount and can pay a bit more this month dude! Sweet, we're on our way to paying them off finally!"), and used some of that overpayment to get by and kicked myself a little, 'cos yes, "you're now paying interest and finance charges on your own money by not budgeting correctly doofus", and . . . rinse, and repeat.

So, I sat down a few days ago and entered and categorized, via I Will Teach You To Be Rich (IWTYTBR) general categorization, every expense I could think of or had entered into YNAB's budget into a spreadsheet, and broke it up by pay periods, accounting for the pay bump as well. I basically came to the conclusion that if I sock away half of everything upcoming, every pay period (and including halving the "bump"), I'll be golden.

-- As somewhat of an aside, I also did this spreadsheet as my payroll allows me to direct deposit percentages to any accounts of my choosing. This would be good for me I believe as it would mean "x" account would get direct deposited an IWTYTBR master category which would help keep me on track with spending - transferring after deposit would probably not work as it takes "two to three days" to get from one bank to another for some dumb reason I can't control or get around and hate - guessing they do this to millions of people and it's an interest earner for them, but not important. Anyway, for example, "Guilt Free Spending" is a master category espoused by IWTYTBR. It's loosely defined as eating out, cigarettes, movies, bars, video games, etc. If all of those monies are in one account tied to one card, hopefully, and if I've budgeted correctly, that means I can then start to use that card or cash withdrawn from said card for ONLY those things. A "fun" card if you will. When it's spent, fun's done! However, I can't vary direct deposit percentages unless I remember to go in every two weeks and quite literally fumble and miscalculate numbers around manually, (heh, I'm a number fumbler), so I needed to even the percentages out as much as possible so it's a set it and forget it proposition once I'm out of this tail chasing position - I couldn't start now with a lump deposit breakout without seriously $#%(&$#% myself. --

Anyway, yes, I came to a conclusion that is basically what YNAB is already saying, no? Or no? That would be building a buffer, right? However it seems I'm being told to "budget in the now with monies you have", but my problem is NOT thinking ahead. By not budgeting ahead, I see myself doing the above spending of money not cleared but spent - - "oh, they totally found you money, so awesome, put those dollars to work over here!" -- and still ending up in the same spot of "oh crap, forgot about that" in a couple weeks or less when something I forgot about comes winging by my head and I'm doing the "oh crap" shuffle to dodge financial injury. There's the "scheduled transactions" of course, but if they don't subtract from or post to my mobile or computer YNAB until they're alleged to do so . . . I'm still seeing funds available and erroneously spending them. But then I've seen a few people, including you, saying TO budget ahead, so . . . which is it?

To use rent as an example of an issue to building a buffer, which @ 32% of monthly income and 70% of this $2000 pay period, is my biggest expenditure, how do I then expect to have half of it (35% of $2500), and then half of everything else, for socking away in two weeks? Particularly knowing that I'll probably somehow overspend that $500 before the 2nd pay period, or maybe somehow make it through and find I need that $700 for an upcoming vacation (true, I do have an upcoming vacation) and be in a hole anyway? That's where I'm at I suppose. I'm starting to see the end game here I think, but how do I get from "a" to "b" while still maintaining financial obligations that are happening very soon?

[dandelion]

I think you are misinterpreting people's advice not to budget ahead as not to plan ahead. You have to plan ahead. You have to look ahead and see what expenses are coming up. But you assign the money into your budget categories when you actually have the money in your hot little hand. When you get a check that's when you look ahead and assign money to the categories for what you want to save it for. Some money out of each check will be saved for rent for example so that when the rent is due you have enough. You will start a category to save for that vacation and put some money in it each month to save up for it. Same with the upcoming computer purchase. Assign ALL of the money to something.

But what you can not do is to look at the account balance as you mentioned above and spend money because there is money in the account. You have to spend from the category balances to make this work. You can't just go out to eat because there is money in the account and you get paid again tomorrow. That money is all being saved for something. Only spend the money if it is in the 'eating out' category (or you make a conscious decision to sacrifice something else you were saving for).

Hope this made sense.

[Malisa]

I think all your rambling and ruminating is great. That's what I do too.

I'll jump in on a few of the items that kadkin didn't.

-on having your check split to multiple accounts.
On the one hand, this is what kept me afloat pre-ynab. The only reason my house wasn't foreclosed and my cars weren't repossessed was that I had $xxxx go into an account that I didn't carry a debit card for, while our paychecks (which could vary) minus $xxxx went into the account we spent from. Fortunately, I held that account sacred and didn't lose any of my worldly possessions. Unfortunately, since all the extra we made went into the spending account I always spent the extra. AND I continued to build up my CC balances all the while.

So it's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, but dividing up your income into different physical bank accounts might accomplish what you want on one level (ie: segregating what gets spent on bills) it's not solving another problem (using the CC to 'tide you over') and it's CREATING another problem...it's much more work to deal with in YNAB! And to top it off, IF you're using YNAB as intended, it's totally unnecessary!

What you're proposing to do with physical accounts (which come with the liability that if you don't keep up with your records the greatest come with the added bonus of potentially costing you tons in NSF/OD fees) is EXACTLY what YNAB does with it's categories. IF you record what you spend (more on that in a minute), and spend according to category balances, you're attaining the same result without the downsides.

It sounds like it's your 'out and about' spending that is the biggest issue. Maybe? Food, cigarettes, etc.? I'm a total debit/credit card gal. As part of a couple, it's worked out well for us because of the record of spending. However, if I was single (or had finances separate from my partner) and having the spending issues that I had previously and it sounds like you're having now, I'd switch to cash for those things.

Do you really care how much you spend on A vs. B as far as walking-around-spending-money type spending money goes? If not, then withdraw the amount you're comfortable spending per week (or couple days or two weeks...whatever you're comfortable with at first) and treat it as GONE in YNAB. Use a Fun Money category or a Spending Money category. Whatever makes sense to you. In the future, you can 'graduate' to tracking that spending more closely. But for now, the big thing is to limit it (I think.) The big thing, in this scenario, is to stick to the schedule. If you withdraw a week's worth of money and you spend it in 4 days, then it's mac and cheese cooked at home and sitting on the couch for the next 3 days. And if you can't carry cards without using them...don't carry them.

-as for how to get to a buffer when you need to first do a, b, c...dont' worry about it yet. It's a non-issue. It's a nice to have, not a need to have. If it's more important to you than a vacation, a new monitor, new headphones or whatever, then direct your money there. If it's not, don't. Some history: the buffer used to be rule 1. A lot of people used to see it as a barrier to using ynab. They'd see it and think 'I can't even get a buffer together, I'll never be able to use YNAB, I'll never be able to budget, why bother.' And while it's amazingly awesome to have the buffer in place, it's not necessary and shouldn't make you feel like you're doing it wrong or something if you don't have it. Work with what you've got.

-as for making those extra-big payments on your CC. Another pot calling the kettle black story here...don't do it. If you're at a place where you can do it and you know you won't be turning around and putting stuff back on the card, great. But if you're going to either purposefully or in a moment of weakness put stuff on the card, you're SO just chasing your tail (at best). Or you could get caught like me where, I directed a HUGE chunk to pay down on the CC, thinking I had that free-space on the card as my 'emergency funds' and BOOM - they lowered my credit limit to what I then had outstanding. Thousands of dollars that I 'had at my disposal' --- gone. That's when a couple of posts by Patzer (forum member who, happily, is back around since we've been testing YNAB 4) really took hold for me:
[url="http://www.youneedabudget.com/forum/the-rules-f1/topic5260.html#p35596"]Letting Money Sit[/url]
[url="http://www.youneedabudget.com/forum/the-rules-f1/topic5260-15.html#p56626"]March Better Not Faster[/url]

-lastly, your pay schedule and halving your expenses. The way I see it, you'd actually be moving backwards if you do this. How so you ask? IF the goal is to enter all paychecks as Income for (next month) {note: for those playing along at home, that's the new designation for Income: Available Next Month for YNAB 4} which as discussed above, may not be right now, but I'll ramble on as if it is, then you're already half way there. And really, based on the fact that you said I had things pretty close to reality with my last gigantic post, you're better than half way there.

IF you can enter your 29th check as Income for July (since you'll be downloading YNAB 4 on Tuesday, of course) because you have enough spending money available right now to make it through the 1st, you are at least half way there. (I'm leaving out the vacation and other new baubles you mentioned for the sake of discussion since I don't know amounts on them or when the vacation is, etc.) It seemed like the $500 left after 'fixed' expenses should carry you through to the 15th. Find a way to make that happen! Then, when you get paid on the 15th, theoretically, you need about $500 for the other non-fixed expenses to get you through the last two weeks. And you have significantly less 'fixed' expenses to come out of that pay, so you shouldn't REALLY need it all to get you through until the end of the month. So, I'd recommend when you get your 7/15 check you set a goal to enter it as a split paycheck: Part as Income for July and part as Income for August. Figure out an amount, not crazy high, that you're comfortable sending ahead. $100? $300? $500? You decide. This is where you start weighing things like vacation, etc. Budget some of the money to those categories as well. Then, your goal with your 8/15 check is to send at least that much ahead again. Or more. Then you'll have $400 or $600 or $1000 more than your end of the month check available to budget for August. If it's in the higher range, maybe you can even pay ALL your 'fixed' expenses on August 1st. How sweet would THAT be? That's getting close to being buffered. If not in August, then September. Or October.

Or maybe this sounds very constricting and you'd rather not work towards a buffer now, that's TOTALLY fine too. But it sounds like if you were to reign in some of the stuff where 'the money just disappears' this shouldn't be too big of a stretch.

If you want to keep rambling with folks on the forum, and you're committed to this vacation, if you wouldn't mind sticking a number on it and saying how far off it is, it'd be easier to help see this through. Also, say if you think, based on this last post, you're up for building your buffer now or if you'd like to take me up on my permission to wait. And last, you mentioned new computer, monitor, headphones etc. How much and how soon and how big of a priority are these things?

I like your writing style and you seem receptive to conversing. I hope I haven't overstepped any bounds. Honestly, this is how I entertain myself on a Sunday morning (and avoid things like laundry, vacuuming and the like )

[RickyBobby]

Thanks. I don't think you've overstepped any bounds that I can see. Just getting a chance to read through and parse all you're saying, but I"m sure I'll most likely have questions. And, incidentally, I woke up to find that some prick knocked over my motorcycle last night, breaking off one of the mirrors. I think that's all the damage done, but need to go re-check (and apply for a gun license. Kidding!), though there's a perfect example of a surprise expense now . . . something I haven't put away for as of yet and knowing NYC and cops, will probably need to fix sooner than later.

Anyway, I'll be baaahk!

[RickyBobby]

I think all your rambling and ruminating is great. That's what I do too.

I do enjoy writing, I find it helpful to get my thoughts down as I find my brain goes way too fast all the time, which feels borderline ADD at times. Anyway, glad I'm not boring you to death.

I'll jump in on a few of the items that kadkin didn't.

-on having your check split to multiple accounts.
On the one hand, this is what kept me afloat pre-ynab. The only reason my house wasn't foreclosed and my cars weren't repossessed was that I had $xxxx go into an account that I didn't carry a debit card for, while our paychecks (which could vary) minus $xxxx went into the account we spent from. Fortunately, I held that account sacred and didn't lose any of my worldly possessions. Unfortunately, since all the extra we made went into the spending account I always spent the extra. AND I continued to build up my CC balances all the while.

So it's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, but dividing up your income into different physical bank accounts might accomplish what you want on one level (ie: segregating what gets spent on bills) it's not solving another problem (using the CC to 'tide you over') and it's CREATING another problem...it's much more work to deal with in YNAB! And to top it off, IF you're using YNAB as intended, it's totally unnecessary!

What you're proposing to do with physical accounts (which come with the liability that if you don't keep up with your records the greatest come with the added bonus of potentially costing you tons in NSF/OD fees) is EXACTLY what YNAB does with it's categories. IF you record what you spend (more on that in a minute), and spend according to category balances, you're attaining the same result without the downsides.

What concerns me is that if I just work from one big pot of money, so to speak, and am even just a little less than diligent about entering transactions . . . I'm going to spend pre-allocated funds on something I wasn't supposed to and keep up this cycle. I personally think it would help me NOT use the CCs if I had a little designation or boundaries of what money gets used for what. Again, I see the end game and working from as few accounts as possible is probably the best plan, but I'm not sure I'm there yet. Additionally, one of the banks (ING), doesn't do NSF exactly. They "loan" you the money at an interest rate that's not loan shark rates which is also helpful. Not sure about the other (Ally), will have to check. I'd move to one of them wholesale, but for the lack of brick-and-mortar which sometimes comes in handy.

It sounds like it's your 'out and about' spending that is the biggest issue. Maybe? Food, cigarettes, etc.? I'm a total debit/credit card gal. As part of a couple, it's worked out well for us because of the record of spending. However, if I was single (or had finances separate from my partner) and having the spending issues that I had previously and it sounds like you're having now, I'd switch to cash for those things.

Do you really care how much you spend on A vs. B as far as walking-around-spending-money type spending money goes? If not, then withdraw the amount you're comfortable spending per week (or couple days or two weeks...whatever you're comfortable with at first) and treat it as GONE in YNAB. Use a Fun Money category or a Spending Money category. Whatever makes sense to you. In the future, you can 'graduate' to tracking that spending more closely. But for now, the big thing is to limit it (I think.) The big thing, in this scenario, is to stick to the schedule. If you withdraw a week's worth of money and you spend it in 4 days, then it's mac and cheese cooked at home and sitting on the couch for the next 3 days. And if you can't carry cards without using them...don't carry them.

I care to the extent that I know where that money is going. The problem is more that I have a big cash hole with only a base understanding of where it goes. I take out $100 at a time and some of it's cigs, some of it's eating lunch, some of it's ??? So yeah, for now I should probably track that so I can budget (or find where to cut back).

-as for how to get to a buffer when you need to first do a, b, c...dont' worry about it yet. It's a non-issue. It's a nice to have, not a need to have. If it's more important to you than a vacation, a new monitor, new headphones or whatever, then direct your money there. If it's not, don't. Some history: the buffer used to be rule 1. A lot of people used to see it as a barrier to using ynab. They'd see it and think 'I can't even get a buffer together, I'll never be able to use YNAB, I'll never be able to budget, why bother.' And while it's amazingly awesome to have the buffer in place, it's not necessary and shouldn't make you feel like you're doing it wrong or something if you don't have it. Work with what you've got.

-as for making those extra-big payments on your CC. Another pot calling the kettle black story here...don't do it. If you're at a place where you can do it and you know you won't be turning around and putting stuff back on the card, great. But if you're going to either purposefully or in a moment of weakness put stuff on the card, you're SO just chasing your tail (at best). Or you could get caught like me where, I directed a HUGE chunk to pay down on the CC, thinking I had that free-space on the card as my 'emergency funds' and BOOM - they lowered my credit limit to what I then had outstanding. Thousands of dollars that I 'had at my disposal' --- gone. That's when a couple of posts by Patzer (forum member who, happily, is back around since we've been testing YNAB 4) really took hold for me:
[url="http://www.youneedabudget.com/forum/the-rules-f1/topic5260.html#p35596"]Letting Money Sit[/url]
[url="http://www.youneedabudget.com/forum/the-rules-f1/topic5260-15.html#p56626"]March Better Not Faster[/url]

Funny, that was my thought process as I made those large payments last week. "Well, worst case, you can just use that money if you're calculating wrong (I always am it seems) and suck up the finance and interest charges. Best case you made a chink in that debt armor!". Of course I'm now finding that I need that money and incurring fees and interest to make it through the week. Fail.

-lastly, your pay schedule and halving your expenses. The way I see it, you'd actually be moving backwards if you do this. How so you ask? IF the goal is to enter all paychecks as Income for (next month) {note: for those playing along at home, that's the new designation for Income: Available Next Month for YNAB 4} which as discussed above, may not be right now, but I'll ramble on as if it is, then you're already half way there. And really, based on the fact that you said I had things pretty close to reality with my last gigantic post, you're better than half way there.

IF you can enter your 29th check as Income for July (since you'll be downloading YNAB 4 on Tuesday, of course) because you have enough spending money available right now to make it through the 1st, you are at least half way there. (I'm leaving out the vacation and other new baubles you mentioned for the sake of discussion since I don't know amounts on them or when the vacation is, etc.) It seemed like the $500 left after 'fixed' expenses should carry you through to the 15th. Find a way to make that happen! Then, when you get paid on the 15th, theoretically, you need about $500 for the other non-fixed expenses to get you through the last two weeks. And you have significantly less 'fixed' expenses to come out of that pay, so you shouldn't REALLY need it all to get you through until the end of the month. So, I'd recommend when you get your 7/15 check you set a goal to enter it as a split paycheck: Part as Income for July and part as Income for August. Figure out an amount, not crazy high, that you're comfortable sending ahead. $100? $300? $500? You decide. This is where you start weighing things like vacation, etc. Budget some of the money to those categories as well. Then, your goal with your 8/15 check is to send at least that much ahead again. Or more. Then you'll have $400 or $600 or $1000 more than your end of the month check available to budget for August. If it's in the higher range, maybe you can even pay ALL your 'fixed' expenses on August 1st. How sweet would THAT be? That's getting close to being buffered. If not in August, then September. Or October.

I'd planned on just fudging the 29th date in YNAB to be the 1st of July and rolling on. Is that a bad idea? I'm definitely, at this juncture, going to end up spending money over the weekend (likely paying any bills I know about since I like to do that first thing) and such. See? Absent-minded professor just remembered that I'm going on a mini-vacation that weekend, which was by and large pre-paid at the end of June, but I'm sure something will come up that requires $$. And I know, I read like I'm forever on vacation, but really am not. 2012 has become an interesting year for me honestly. I moved in with someone (offer on an amazing duplex with huge patio and in prime real estate), which meant about $5000 in first/last/etc up front (though thankfully the landlord who's a friend was willing to be paid over a few months, since of course I didn't have it) off the bat, and then to help/hinder things, I now have shared expenses. So far we've worked out that I'll handle the cable and they'll handle the gas/electric, which amounts to about the same. In the back of my head I wonder what happens when they have a money issue and I have to cover that. How do I account for that (sure, sock away for rainy day in YNAB) AND not make the bad choice of deciding, "eh, probably won't need it, haven't so far, so fuck it, let's spend it!"? Then, of course, there's the amorphous "new apartment things" category which . . .who knows, that stuff seems to just show up least expected I find. I dunno if you can answer that , just rambling.

Anyway, as it stands now, referring to my old custom spreadsheet setup, period 2 is for bills like credit card payments, cable/internet, and incidental things like (motorcycle mirror now, grrrr), money for impending vacation (more on that in a minute), and the like. According to the spreadsheet, income for that period, minus bills just mentioned, it leaves me with roughly 30% of $2500 ($750) for 2 weeks. Remember, that's eating out, going out, cigs, etc. And (this is clearly a spending behavior issue) NYC is the kind of town you sort of have to go out. I never used to drink really (I'm from the west coast, which, I'll leave it at I was used to spending that money on other things, heh), but I've found that everything social here centers around a bar. "Yeah, let's meet up at "x" bar later?". Ugh, fiiiine. I've since learned to drink like a fish or sit at home going crazy not making any friends 'cos they're all out. Which, of course, means a) more money spent on drinks, and b) poor money decisions made after several of said drinks. Mind, I'm not getting dance off pants off wasted, but even a few drinks and bad decision monster rears it's head, heh. Again though, that's a behavior issue I'm not sure I can YNAB out exactly. Though maybe!

Back to the point though, so . . . the vacation, it's not negotiable, I'm going and can't back out at this juncture. It's happening at the end of July. I figured $1500 initially, that's for airfare (hovering between $600-700), all-inclusive food (about $350), and possibly a need for a rental car ($600ish for a week, split between two people). I've since got an offer for $375 airfare - so I've adjusted the spreadsheet and YNAB (yes, I realize I'm doing dual duty, but it helps me error-check a bit with my poor estimation skills) to plan for $975 - I'm leaving in the rental car just in case it's a necessity as it's a "maybe, not sure" I was told. The 30% mentioned above is after that expense AND another that I've owed for a vacation since last November (a friend of mine likes to vacation a lot and ends up loaning me the money). So, we're still at $750. YNAB is telling me right now as I look at it that my buffer is -$850 for July and that I've over-budgeted by -$840 (so really I'm on budget with 10 bucks to spare in a sense, but I didn't account for that negative buffer).

*Live update! - as an example of where I miscalculate things all the damn time, I just realized I can chop out that $350 for all-inclusive from July and move it to August since that's when it'll be due, actually already had it in August, but forgot to subtract from July - the vacation is end of July and into August. So that lowers the $975 to $625 and reduces that negative buffer!* That just now find also means that in August, according to YNAB, I'm only over budgeted by $60. And in September I have $190 available to budget. *Oooh, another find! I had apparently planned to pay extra on a CC, which, if I cut it down to minimum or maybe $10 over to make myself feel a little better, heh, that puts me in the green in August and super-green in September!* Now, as I type that, in the back of my mind going a 1000 miles an our is "ok, wtf am I not thinking of or accounting for?" Or what the hell is going to rear it's head and go "oh hi, you owe me some money!"?

Anyway, let's assume that's all correct and I found a windfall though, just to continue this conversation. The monitor . . . I have three (I make music and do IT stuff), well two now, one died, but it's not a need right now thing and I just need to exercise self-control for a few months. It's been dead for that many already, so I can live a couple more. First world problems eh? Heh. The new computer? No idea on cost or when, but let's assume it's $1200 (I build my own, so can probably affect that when I get in "build list parts" mode), so not something I need right now and if I can find the time, can probably look into that fan noise and spend a fraction of the cost just fixing it. Then again it may just die on me while I'm typing now, it's definitely heading into end of life territory at 6 years. Shrug, I'm back-burnering it for now, but it serves of an example of things I don't account for and find myself caught out because I didn't do so.

Or maybe this sounds very constricting and you'd rather not work towards a buffer now, that's TOTALLY fine too. But it sounds like if you were to reign in some of the stuff where 'the money just disappears' this shouldn't be too big of a stretch.

If you want to keep rambling with folks on the forum, and you're committed to this vacation, if you wouldn't mind sticking a number on it and saying how far off it is, it'd be easier to help see this through. Also, say if you think, based on this last post, you're up for building your buffer now or if you'd like to take me up on my permission to wait. And last, you mentioned new computer, monitor, headphones etc. How much and how soon and how big of a priority are these things?

I like your writing style and you seem receptive to conversing. I hope I haven't overstepped any bounds. Honestly, this is how I entertain myself on a Sunday morning (and avoid things like laundry, vacuuming and the like )

Ok, I'm going to stop there as I need to get on some other things, and beyond some super glue (mirror, fingers crossed) and a pack of smokes, have no planned expenses for today. Glad you like my style and really appreciate you taking the time even if it just amounts to me mostly blah blah blahing and having self-realizations, it means a lot. I feel like maybe some of your questions went unanswered, if so, not intentional, and I'm sure I'll come back and re-read and over-analyze this again more than once today. But yes, on to other things for now! Thanks again!