YNAB You Need A Budget

[JimFPU]

Bomberman asked about DRCT and not sure what all he wanted to hear, but here is what I thought of the training.

I thought it was a great time away with my wife for one! We did have very long days (10-14on average) and we had a ton on stuff to read and learn. We however had a huge head start on many since we are in our 6th year of coordinating Financial Peace University. There was some FPU principle teaching and review for those that really didn’t know it, but we finally did get through and we able to get to the part of the training that Kim and I wanted to get to. See, for us we’d been doing counseling with people from our classes for a long time. We’ve seen anything from people 10 seconds from divorce, to financially sound and great marriages, and many things in between. I’m also a moderator at LLNOE, and have been working there for several years to help people with budgets. (Of course I’m still getting the YNAB thing down, but I’m an old XL Dave guy…) I know how to hack a budget and get people on the right track on paper.

Counselor Training helped me most with mercy. I tend to be hard core sometimes, and run over people to get to the objective, and then have to figure out how to reassemble the people to help them get on with the plan that I set up for them. My wife is the one with compassion and doesn’t necessarily care about the numbers as much. Now, not only do I not tell you what your budget is going to be (which many people just wish someone would do for them) but I can sit back and listen to people better. By no means have I perfected this, but it has changed the way I do counseling. We help with options now and not just ‘this is the plan-do it’ kind of stuff. God is working mercy into my life every day.

The Training itself is not really that hard but it’s intense. If you’ve ever been to a DR Live Event, it’s like 4.5 days of that!! You will learn a lot, and meet/make some good friends. For us it was a good time to see Dave’s offices, and reconnect with many friends that we have at his office. When Dave cam out to meet & greet people, we were talking and meeting with all of the other people we know, and let those that hadn’t met Dave before get some time with him. Of course our class was one of the biggest they’ve had (84) so there wasn’t much time during the commercial breaks anyway!
In conclusion, if I could do it over again, I believe I would. Dave’s team is great. Listening to Russ Carroll (where I believe most of Dave’s counseling and advice comes from) and the others on the Counseling team, you can gain a lot of insight and wisdom from them. And they will answer all your questions until you can ask no more. Of course, we got lots of cool stuff too!!! So if you have the chance to attend, then do so. But consider the cost, for us we wanted to make this a business, and it’s definitely slow going. We’re still in the pro-bono stages, so we can get some more experience, but we’ll get there. Any education you can acquire is good.

Anything else?

[bomberman]

Jim,

Thanks for the rundown on DRCT. I've been so impressed by Ramsey's message (and I'm lumping together his radio show and the one book of his that I've read so far), especially when it came to addressing my own "person in the mirror" problems, that when I found out on his website that counselor training is available, I instantly became intrigued.

I could see myself applying for the training in 3 or 4 years, once I feel we're comfortably in Baby Step 5 territory (and with some serious work done on Baby Step 6). It's expensive, but that doesn't bother me, since I can now readily see that all I need to do is start budgeting for it far enough in advance (several weeks ago that possibility would never have even crossed my mind!) While I think I'd like to keep my options open for being a for-profit counselor down the road, initially I'd like to offer counseling services for free. I'm in the military, and I think it'd be great to be able to make that sort of training available to other military members who could really use it. I understand that FPU is available in a military edition; in fact, I was tempted to go through the course myself a couple of years ago. I'm sure it's a wonderful program, and I'd still like to go through it sometime given the opportunity, but here's the deal: at least in the military circles I've been a part of, being home for each of the 13 weeks that FPU requires is a pipe dream for most people. With training trips and deployments so common, it's extremely difficult to devote a full 13 weeks to anything that can't be done online or through correspondence. That's the main reason why I didn't sign up for FPU when I first had the chance.

If I became a financial counselor, then I could work around peoples' schedules and still get them counseling if they really wanted it. To be sure, there's plenty of financial advising and counseling available to military members, and much of it is free, but I have yet to encounter anything quite as effective as what Dave Ramsey teaches (and I'm sure there's more to it than what I've experienced so far). It would be nice to make that available to my colleagues in the service and to their families.

That would also help me decide if financial counseling is something I might want to do when I get out of the military (even if only on a part-time basis). This leads to my next question for you: do you feel that going through DRCT gives you all the tools you need to be an effective financial counselor? Or is more education required? I don't know your background, but I don't have any formal education in accounting or finance.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the program!

[JimFPU]

OK, since you have several concerns, I'll try and address them all.

The first FPU class I led was at work in the USAF. True, not everyone could attend every session, but it still was an invaluable experience for all involved, most of all for my wife and me. I would encourage you to go through FPU some way at least once before CT. Call and talk to Dave’s Military people for details on how to do FPU at work.

There are no longer any differences for a ministry counselor, and for-profit counselor. That has all changed and there is only one price for the training. We’re still in Step 3, and we’d been tracking the CT for some time and knew a couple of the people at Dave’s office, so we knew the prices were changing and we decided to do it now before the change. We did get a good deal on our training!

In CT, Dave’s people will show how to get things going, but it’s up to you to do it. We have found that our ministry side is the one really going, and is closely associated with our FPU classes. Many come to us with more in depth questions and ask for extra help outside of class. Most of the time, it’s because they don’t want to share specifics in class.

You don’t need any other training specifically. Of course, anything extra will help, but it’s not required. Network. That will help a lot. If you don’t have a specific training, then find someone with a heart of a teacher, and refer your clients. It’s also OK to tell people that you don’t know. It’s much better to refer them to a qualified person that has answers that they need, than to try and get by and answer their question in a poor manner. Be the expert in the financial area, i.e. budgeting and getting out of debt, let someone else do investing, for example. Believe me the reciprocal will be matched. My pastor, for instance, does marriage counseling. We do financial specifically. He does that better, we do finance better. We don’t mix, and shoot rabbits when it comes to getting into marriage counseling when talking finances. What I mean is that when people come to talk to us about finances, we keep it on track and only discuss finances. Our time (even volunteer) is valuable. If people see that you are organized and focused, the sessions will go much better. Believe me when I say that the 6-8 hour marathon sessions are no fun, even if necessary!!

So the bottom line is this. DRCT can’t hurt, and will most certainly help, both you and your clients.

[bomberman]

Ah, okay, so the program has gone through some changes lately. That explains why what I've read on Ramsey's website differs from what I've been reading elsewhere (and even from what I guess must be an old PDF application that I also found on his website). From what I can tell, they no longer "certify" counselors anymore--if you receive the training, you can say you received the training, and that's it. Doesn't sound as marketable to me, but I imagine they made this change to protect their brand (maybe they were getting some complaints on some of the "Dave Ramsey Certified Counselors," and figured it would be better to amputate them then to risk the possibility of more brand tarnishing).

It sounds to me like there would definitely still be some value in attending the training, and I may still apply for it in a few years, but I think that you probably got in during the best time if you were one of the last actual "certified" counselors!

I do still intend to attend FPU if I'm ever afforded the opportunity. In fact, when I return from this deployment, I'd like to head over to the chapel and see if it's available. If not, I'll probably work with one of the chaplains to see if we can get it set up.

I like your ideas on staying within a debt/budgeting niche for counseling and referring to others for specializations such as investing. Networking is always a good idea, but to tell you the truth, I wouldn't know where to start. All the financial planners I've ever met work on commission, and so there's always a possibility for a conflict of interest. I wouldn't want to refer a client to someone that wanted to sell them something.

It hadn't even occurred to me that you could also send and receive referrals to/from a marital counselor such as a pastor. That makes a lot of sense, especially when you consider that personal finances can be a source of marital stress.

Thanks again for your perspective! I hope you continue to offer updates on how your financial counseling business goes. If you haven't already, you might want to consider starting a journal over in the Journals section of the forum.

[JimFPU]

The state of Tennessee had problems with the word 'Certified' and wanted to get involved in the training via oversight and such. Dave said, uh, no. So, other than about 4 hours of training that was dropped for running a business, the class is the same.

Even if you can't get FPU through the Chapel, look on Dave's site for a class in the area. There is also an on-line version, but it has fairly tight time restrictions. Besides, I personally feel you really need the interaction of your classmates for the best effect.

I believe it's OK to refer people to those that will charge them for their time, but I make sure to tell them that. It's OK to make money for spending time with someone. My referral list is actually only one pay-for-service person right now, but the assessment is free, and one referral has used her for her service (investing). I only referred her after I had a free assessment for my investment needs and discussed Dave at great length with her. She is not an ELP, but I believe has submitted to become one.

Not too big on the journal thing...sorry.